Time to embrace the future, rather than trying to revive the past.

Do you mean embrace the future you through the wholesale slaughter of that very future through unbridled lust and selfishness and mainstreaming the killing of babies. If you do then the next logical MODERNIZATION that needs to take place would be the wholesale slaughter of the elderly because they are a drain on our medical system anyway. They are no longer productive there is no sense them hanging around. And then while we are at it why not imprison or better yet murder anyone who happens to speak out against the MODERNIZATION techniques now in high gear. And then while we are at it and because we intend to cr...

Time to embrace the future, rather than trying to revive the past.

Do you mean embrace the future you through the wholesale slaughter of that very future through unbridled lust and selfishness and mainstreaming the killing of babies. If you do then the next logical MODERNIZATION that needs to take place would be the wholesale slaughter of the elderly because they are a drain on our medical system anyway. They are no longer productive there is no sense them hanging around. And then while we are at it why not imprison or better yet murder anyone who happens to speak out against the MODERNIZATION techniques now in high gear. And then while we are at it and because we intend to create that UTOPIAN society SO DREAMED of by the likes of little Hitlers like you let us kill all them damn Jews.

Is that about right darkforce? Do I have this modernization and embracing the future about rightt?

Well then I think I like that idea and because I am now in charge I say we start by eliminating all asses from the face of the earth and I think we should start with you. Does that suit your idea of this UTOPIAN society you so desire? At least then the rest of us nut jobs will not have to listen to your asinine comments all over cyberspace.

You might want to reconsider your position there darkforce because once we start down that road to removal of all undeserables that might just include you.

On the other hand perhaps the President of the UNITED STATES should start acting like the PRESIDENT OF ALL the people and not just a select few. Why should certain people groups have to set aside their beliefs while those on your side never have to set aside yours.

And if it is modernization we are after perhaps you need to come up with a new lifestyle because the homosexual lifestyle has been around since biblical times! There is nothing new about that. The only thing that might be new is if people would actually stop sinner and learn to LOVE their fellow man. How about we try

The Catholic Church has nothing to do with God or Christians. They coincidentally have some Christians among their membership, but they are not Christians due to the teaching of the Catholic Church.

The Catholic Church is a cult that tries to pass man-made, corrupt, self-indulgent dogma as the word of God. They have people worshipping false idols and gods, in defiance to the word of God. Its creator, Constantine, usurped the true way of Christ and twisted it into a dark, despicable tool of Satan, wearing a false mask of Christianity.

God does love you, whatever you do or believe. He is sad if you do things that harm other people, but he is always willing to forgive, no matter what you have...

The Catholic Church has nothing to do with God or Christians. They coincidentally have some Christians among their membership, but they are not Christians due to the teaching of the Catholic Church.

The Catholic Church is a cult that tries to pass man-made, corrupt, self-indulgent dogma as the word of God. They have people worshipping false idols and gods, in defiance to the word of God. Its creator, Constantine, usurped the true way of Christ and twisted it into a dark, despicable tool of Satan, wearing a false mask of Christianity.

God does love you, whatever you do or believe. He is sad if you do things that harm other people, but he is always willing to forgive, no matter what you have done. The Catholic Church's stance on abortion is the opinions of man, based on dogma; which itself is just the opinions of other men. God Himself has not made any indication of His opinion of abortion. I personally believe he's against the wasting of human life, but that includes the lives and wellbeing of the mothers, as well as the unborn babes.

The Catholic opinion is Man's opinion, masquerading as God's opinion. 'nuff said.

God Himself has not made any indication of His opinion of abortion.

16 Six things are hated by the Lord; seven things are disgusting to him:
17 Eyes of pride, a false tongue, hands which take life without cause;
18 A heart full of evil designs, feet which are quick in running after sin;
19 A false witness, breathing out untrue words, and one who lets loose violent acts among brothers.
Prov 6:16-19 (BBE)


King Jimmy puts it this way:

16 There are six things which the LORD hates, seven which are an abomination to him:
17 haughty eyes, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, what could be more innocent then a child?

The thing is none of them would have to be a...

God Himself has not made any indication of His opinion of abortion.

16 Six things are hated by the Lord; seven things are disgusting to him:
17 Eyes of pride, a false tongue, hands which take life without cause;
18 A heart full of evil designs, feet which are quick in running after sin;
19 A false witness, breathing out untrue words, and one who lets loose violent acts among brothers.
Prov 6:16-19 (BBE)


King Jimmy puts it this way:

16 There are six things which the LORD hates, seven which are an abomination to him:
17 haughty eyes, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, what could be more innocent then a child?

The thing is none of them would have to be aborted if the MOTHER would practice some restraint and not play the harlot in the street. I am pro-chioce as well I just thing responsible adults who do not wish to conceive a child CHOOSE to practice safe sex or use birth control. Killing a child is not birth control it is murder.

I know my history, Efrain, but it seems that all you know is Catholic Dogma, which time and again has proven to clash with actual history. The Apostles never ascribed to the Catholic Church; they were assigned to it after the fact by revisionist Catholic historians. Another clever ploy by the Catholics to try to legitimize themselves; just like them abrogating pagan holidays and rituals into their "worship" to eliminate the competition.

Seems you were fooled as well. It isn't a conspiracy theory when it's the truth. How about you think for yourself for a change, instead of following Catholic Groupthink?

If we confess and QUIT sinning. God is under no obligation to forgive a non-repe...

I know my history, Efrain, but it seems that all you know is Catholic Dogma, which time and again has proven to clash with actual history. The Apostles never ascribed to the Catholic Church; they were assigned to it after the fact by revisionist Catholic historians. Another clever ploy by the Catholics to try to legitimize themselves; just like them abrogating pagan holidays and rituals into their "worship" to eliminate the competition.

Seems you were fooled as well. It isn't a conspiracy theory when it's the truth. How about you think for yourself for a change, instead of following Catholic Groupthink?

If we confess and QUIT sinning. God is under no obligation to forgive a non-repentant sinner.

And yet, He does. That's just the way He is. No matter how many times we disappoint Him, He will always forgive. He is eternally patient. But God knows the difference between a person just giving lip service to their forgiveness pleas and those who are truly penitent, and that will come back to haunt you in the end.

And yet, He does. That's just the way He is. No matter how many times we disappoint Him, He will always forgive. He is eternally patient. But God knows the difference between a person just giving lip service to their forgiveness pleas and those who are truly penitent, and that will come back to haunt you in the end.

This was actually one of your most thoughtful responses to date and for that I give you kudos. I do not mean to parse words here but I do not agree with your assertion that God will always forgive. There are things that GOD finds abominable and gives a sentence of death to. The holiness of God forbids him to accept any sin. The only way we can even expect forgivene...

And yet, He does. That's just the way He is. No matter how many times we disappoint Him, He will always forgive. He is eternally patient. But God knows the difference between a person just giving lip service to their forgiveness pleas and those who are truly penitent, and that will come back to haunt you in the end.

This was actually one of your most thoughtful responses to date and for that I give you kudos. I do not mean to parse words here but I do not agree with your assertion that God will always forgive. There are things that GOD finds abominable and gives a sentence of death to. The holiness of God forbids him to accept any sin. The only way we can even expect forgiveness or a pardon from God is to accept Jesus Christ as our atoning sacrifice and to follow Him as one of His disciples. We can not just live as we choose and then expect God to accept our offerings as sufficient because the only acceptable sacrifice any more is Jesus Christ and He alone.

It is a truism that God knows those who are His and he also knows those who are of their father the devil. There are Saints and sinners in the world. There is a definate line to be drawn and the day is coming quite rapidly when God will force that line to be drawn and no longer will one side be able to cross over to the other side so then TODAY is the DAY of your salvation. Today is the day you need to make sure which side of the fence you are on. Tomorrow may just be too late.

As far as coming back to haunt you in the end YES God's paybacks are Hell indeed.

Yep the old Darkforce is back. I no sooner give the guy a compliment and he goes off the deep end again. Okay Mr facts guy. You say I take a conservative side. Yes I am conservative in my beliefs but most born again Christians are. Religious folks, scribes and pharisees on the other hand tend to lean liberal.

As far as always seeing America as not ever making mistakes let me educate you on that one. Here is a fact for you. Fact: America made a big mistake electing Obama President. Unless of course you happen to believe that government control of our lives is going to make this country great. It has not worked anywhere else it has been tried. But I guess because Darkforce does not live here...

Yep the old Darkforce is back. I no sooner give the guy a compliment and he goes off the deep end again. Okay Mr facts guy. You say I take a conservative side. Yes I am conservative in my beliefs but most born again Christians are. Religious folks, scribes and pharisees on the other hand tend to lean liberal.

As far as always seeing America as not ever making mistakes let me educate you on that one. Here is a fact for you. Fact: America made a big mistake electing Obama President. Unless of course you happen to believe that government control of our lives is going to make this country great. It has not worked anywhere else it has been tried. But I guess because Darkforce does not live here he would love to see us become miserable like the rest of the world.

Now then I would like for you to substantiate your claim that I pick propaganda over verifiable facts. You can not just toss out vindictives like this and then just slink off into your blackhole of ignorance without offering ANY VERIFIABLE evidence to your so called FACTS! How about it darkforce care to offer some VERIFIABLE FACTS?

I can prove all of my positions from historical facts and not propaganda which you obviously get plenty of. You do not even know me so you really have no idea who I am, what I do for a living, where I get my information from, why I come to the conclusions I come to, or for that matter what I actually believe.

It is easy to throw stones from a distance. How about face to face darkforce. I dare you to come out of the hole you hide in an actually have an intellectual debate.

I know it will be very hard for you to render a cognitive thought so I will take that into consideration. The record of your performance on this forum has been less than stellar so I know I am dealing with a half wit a best so I will allow for your limited intellect. YOUR TURN GO!

I think you'll agree with me that conservatives are the ones against the grain, in our liberal, agenda filled media.

Actually the problem is, the way I see it anyway, the media has hijacked our language and thereby has reinterpreted tried and true definitions. Liberal is considered compassionate and conservatives are labeled, bigoted, hateful and homophobes. When the truth of the matter is a TRUE CONSERVATIVE person would be one who would not take any measure to its excess. For an example, when it comes to spending money, a conservative would consider cost and other factors before spending large sums of money. They would by nature seek to find out what the BEST VALUE was for t...

I think you'll agree with me that conservatives are the ones against the grain, in our liberal, agenda filled media.

Actually the problem is, the way I see it anyway, the media has hijacked our language and thereby has reinterpreted tried and true definitions. Liberal is considered compassionate and conservatives are labeled, bigoted, hateful and homophobes. When the truth of the matter is a TRUE CONSERVATIVE person would be one who would not take any measure to its excess. For an example, when it comes to spending money, a conservative would consider cost and other factors before spending large sums of money. They would by nature seek to find out what the BEST VALUE was for their hard earned money. A true conservative would consider future events as well as the present.

A liberal by definition is just the opposite, Using the same example when it comes to fiscal matters they are spend now pay later kinds of people. They really do not take the time to consider the ramifications of their have it now mentality. They have no problem running up large debts and putting off for tomorrow the responsbibilty of actually paying for that debt. Their intentions are to hopefully never have to actually pay off the balance but carry it forward into some time in the future when it can be dumped on someone elses shoulders.

A conservative would never expect someone else to pay their bills, they take care of their own responsibilities and are thusly labeled insensitive and uncaring. Why? Because they expect others to behave in the same manner of putting other's welfare in front of their own.

In today's culture these terms have been hijacked and represented falsely in order to PROPAGANDIZE a liberal agenda disquised as compassionate and caring for the poor when in reality (provable facts) their policies harm the poor worse then if they just left well enough alone. IMO. (for darkforce that means in my opinion)

Yes, many "Christians" are conservatives, but those who actually strive to live like Christ, truly endeavouring to follow his path are communists, like Jesus was. What your religious propaganda won't point out to you is that if you read the bible critically, you'll see that Jesus was the original communist. Conservatism is the demesne of false Christians, who really only want to look out for #1.

Yes, America made a mistake in voting for Obama. He's far too conservative. But, it avoided the much, much bigger mistake of voting in an old, crotchety, Bush-style neocon with an uncontrolled temper. So in this case, they erred with the lesser of two evils.

Well, if your "verifiable historical fac...

Yes, many "Christians" are conservatives, but those who actually strive to live like Christ, truly endeavouring to follow his path are communists, like Jesus was. What your religious propaganda won't point out to you is that if you read the bible critically, you'll see that Jesus was the original communist. Conservatism is the demesne of false Christians, who really only want to look out for #1.

Yes, America made a mistake in voting for Obama. He's far too conservative. But, it avoided the much, much bigger mistake of voting in an old, crotchety, Bush-style neocon with an uncontrolled temper. So in this case, they erred with the lesser of two evils.

Well, if your "verifiable historical facts" are based off of American History, you can forget about them right now. They're not reliable. America has been indulging in revisionist history for the past 100 years or more, teaching their children a long litany of near-truths, attuned to pass on sterilized "facts" that makes things look better for America.

Now, I can base my points on solid World History, which has been revised much less in that it has the history of many countries in it to counteract the propaganda of individual countries. So, you go ahead and post your sanitized historical propaganda, and if I haven't hurt myself laughing at your nonsense, I'll post the true historical facts that contradict your lies.

Haha! The man lobbing mortars from his safe little bunker thinks his can stand man-to-man! That's cute! Sorry, but I only debate people who have the trait of critical thought; something you quite clearly lack. It's cute that you'd ask, though.

Yes, America made a mistake in voting for Obama. He's far too conservative. But, it avoided the much, much bigger mistake of voting in an old, crotchety, Bush-style neocon with an uncontrolled temper. So in this case, they erred with the lesser of two evils.

I sense a BS detector going off somewhere. If you truly believe Obama is a conservative then I know you have been smoking too much of that wacky weed. There is nothing more that needs to be said on this subject. And as for McCain there really was not much difference between him and Obama except McCain was old enough to not be able to run for a second term so he would have been the lessor of two evils. OBAMA conservative YEA...

Yes, America made a mistake in voting for Obama. He's far too conservative. But, it avoided the much, much bigger mistake of voting in an old, crotchety, Bush-style neocon with an uncontrolled temper. So in this case, they erred with the lesser of two evils.

I sense a BS detector going off somewhere. If you truly believe Obama is a conservative then I know you have been smoking too much of that wacky weed. There is nothing more that needs to be said on this subject. And as for McCain there really was not much difference between him and Obama except McCain was old enough to not be able to run for a second term so he would have been the lessor of two evils. OBAMA conservative YEAH RIGHT I might agree he is akin to the antichrist.

Washington, Jefferson, Reagon conservatives. OBAMA not a chance.

Yes, many "Christians" are conservatives, but those who actually strive
to live like Christ, truly endeavouring to follow his path are
communists, like Jesus was.

Okay PROVE IT! FACT check time. I want to see your VERIFIABLE facts that Jesus was a communist as you say he was.
com⋅mu⋅nist–noun 1. (initial capital letter) a member of the Communist party or movement. 2. an advocate of communism. 3. a person who is regarded as supporting politically leftist or subversive causes. 4. (usually initial capital letter) a Communard.




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Wake up and smell the elephants. Obama is showing his true conservative nature, spitting in the face of the centrist stance he took during the election. Yes, I know you Americans are terminally deluded as to just what conservative and liberal really are, but on a global scale, Obama is very clearly a conservative; although still with some centrist notions. To call him a liberal is to admit your complete stupidity.

And the very basis of communism (that's with a small "c", not a large "C") is to take care of your fellow man, which is the essential premise of Christianity.

But I suppose you probably live by the non-bible quote, "God takes care of those who take care of themselves". Well, gues...

Wake up and smell the elephants. Obama is showing his true conservative nature, spitting in the face of the centrist stance he took during the election. Yes, I know you Americans are terminally deluded as to just what conservative and liberal really are, but on a global scale, Obama is very clearly a conservative; although still with some centrist notions. To call him a liberal is to admit your complete stupidity.

And the very basis of communism (that's with a small "c", not a large "C") is to take care of your fellow man, which is the essential premise of Christianity.

But I suppose you probably live by the non-bible quote, "God takes care of those who take care of themselves". Well, guess what; that isn't in the bible, and he doesn't. God takes care of those who take care of others; which is what true communism is really about; you can forget your false American-stated definitions; America can't even get spelling right.

In fact, the bible does say what happens to those who just take care of themselves. In the parable of the Sheep and the Goats, the Goats — those who never put the needs of their fellow man ahead of their own needs — are cast away from God's presence, into the lake of everlasting fire. Capitalism is ANTI-CHRISTIAN, and that makes the political party that worships capitalism, the Republicans, the party of selfishness and evil.

The Religious Right are the biggest hypocrites on the planet.

No, but Americans do take kindly to intervening in the domestic affairs of foreign countries, so as long as you continue to do that, guess what? Foreigners are going to be trying to affect the US to get you guys to leave us the hell alone! And unlike you, we actually do CONSTRUCTIVE things, unlike America, which can only do DESTRUCTIVE things in its meddling in other countries.

People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

There is no justice in America. That became very clear when two navy pilots were given just a slap on the wrist and the loss of 1 months pay for defying orders and murdering Canadian soldiers early in the Afghani war. Likewise, they jerked around a Canadian National nam...

No, but Americans do take kindly to intervening in the domestic affairs of foreign countries, so as long as you continue to do that, guess what? Foreigners are going to be trying to affect the US to get you guys to leave us the hell alone! And unlike you, we actually do CONSTRUCTIVE things, unlike America, which can only do DESTRUCTIVE things in its meddling in other countries.

People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

There is no justice in America. That became very clear when two navy pilots were given just a slap on the wrist and the loss of 1 months pay for defying orders and murdering Canadian soldiers early in the Afghani war. Likewise, they jerked around a Canadian National named Arar, sending him to a foreign nation where he was tortured for no reason. And let's not forget the kidnapped people in Gitmo who haven't even been allowed a trial to discover whether they're innocent or not.

As for Liberty; you don't even have the most basic rights of Privacy, or the right to Proper Healthcare.

Live happy in your delusion, because there is no liberty or justice in America. That has been made painfully clear to those non-Americans who have dared deal with the US.

No, but Americans do take kindly to intervening in the domestic affairs
of foreign countries, so as long as you continue to do that, guess
what? Foreigners are going to be trying to affect the US to get you
guys to leave us the hell alone! And unlike you, we actually do
CONSTRUCTIVE things, unlike America, which can only do DESTRUCTIVE
things in its meddling in other countries.

I see. So that is how you want to play. I guess we will close off our northern border and not allow anyone from Canada to enter our country for medical treatment. We will no longer do the research required to manufacture new life saving medicines that you guys steal and repackage and call your own to ...

No, but Americans do take kindly to intervening in the domestic affairs
of foreign countries, so as long as you continue to do that, guess
what? Foreigners are going to be trying to affect the US to get you
guys to leave us the hell alone! And unlike you, we actually do
CONSTRUCTIVE things, unlike America, which can only do DESTRUCTIVE
things in its meddling in other countries.

I see. So that is how you want to play. I guess we will close off our northern border and not allow anyone from Canada to enter our country for medical treatment. We will no longer do the research required to manufacture new life saving medicines that you guys steal and repackage and call your own to make a buck. So if we just STOP doing those two constructive things and just let your sick fend for themselves. How does that suit your unthankful ass? And that is only two things I thought of off the top of my head.

And as far as interfering in others peoples affairs, OKAY we will immediately pull our military home and no longer send aid, military, domestic or any other kind of help to ANY other nation. They can all fend for themselves. We will not longer lend them money, bail out their sorry asses when they are overcome by a national disaster. We will not longer send aid to Africa for all the aides infected because after all that is meddling in the domestic afffairs of others. You are an utter ass! And I tire of dealing with your twisted sense of reality.

And let's not forget the kidnapped people in Gitmo who haven't even been allowed a trial to discover whether they're innocent or not.

KIDNAPPED? THEY Were captured on the BATTLEFIELD with intentions of killing US. We detained them because they are ENEMY combatants not innocent people living peaceable lives that we crashed into their homes and took them captive while they were sleeping, You moronic dope.

As for Liberty; you don't even have the most basic rights of Privacy, or the right to Proper Healthcare.

Rights to privacy guarenteed in the constitution and you may have a point because recently these rights have come under assault but not in the way you are tr...

And let's not forget the kidnapped people in Gitmo who haven't even been allowed a trial to discover whether they're innocent or not.

KIDNAPPED? THEY Were captured on the BATTLEFIELD with intentions of killing US. We detained them because they are ENEMY combatants not innocent people living peaceable lives that we crashed into their homes and took them captive while they were sleeping, You moronic dope.

As for Liberty; you don't even have the most basic rights of Privacy, or the right to Proper Healthcare.

Rights to privacy guarenteed in the constitution and you may have a point because recently these rights have come under assault but not in the way you are trying to imply. ENEMIES have no right to privacy. Those who mean us harm have no right to privacy. NON Citizens of these UNITED STATES are not covered by OUR CONSTITUTION. We do not have to extend OUR RIGHTS to those who want to kill us. The fact that we even let them walk around as prisoners they should be thankful for. I think we should have left them dead on the battlefield.

RIGHT to health care? That is not a right guarenteed by our Constitution but none the less NO ONE IS DENIED medical care in this country. in fact we even treat ILLEGAL aliens. No one is ever turned away an emergency room without being given care. There is no RIGHT guarenteing that someone else shoudl have to pay for your OWN PRIVATE health care because that is LIKE YOU LIKE TO SAY A PRIVACY issue and should not be a PUBLIC ISSUE. But you mix privacy and public socialistic policy to suit whichever government entitlement you wish to promote. FREEDOM requires that FREE PEOPLE take care of themselves and not look for handouts from someone else.

BUT in our defense WE have contributed charitably far beyond any other nation on this planet including your BELOVED Canada.

But in your defense you guys can play hockey.

That threat is laughable. The medical innovations from America are minimal; much better medical care can be gained within Canada. In fact, Americans are coming to Canada to get their treatments done, because the technology and/or knowhow doesn't exist in the States. The only reason people from Canada cross the border is because they have stupid amounts of money and aren't willing to wait 3-4 weeks for elective, non-essential surgeries.

Wrong, many of the people in Gitmo were captured near battlefields. In many cases there is no actual proof they were actually involved in the battle other than just running for their lives.

And yes, Americans are denied health care by virtue of...

That threat is laughable. The medical innovations from America are minimal; much better medical care can be gained within Canada. In fact, Americans are coming to Canada to get their treatments done, because the technology and/or knowhow doesn't exist in the States. The only reason people from Canada cross the border is because they have stupid amounts of money and aren't willing to wait 3-4 weeks for elective, non-essential surgeries.

Wrong, many of the people in Gitmo were captured near battlefields. In many cases there is no actual proof they were actually involved in the battle other than just running for their lives.

And yes, Americans are denied health care by virtue of them being presented a cost before treatment that they can't afford. Americans are leaving Emergency Rooms in the US without getting treatment because they cannot afford the cost. So yes, Americans are being denied health care. However, not in Canada. Despite your spewing of Right-Wing lies, no one is ever has to wait for needed health care in Canada. The only people who cross into the US are those with more money than sense, who don't want to wait 3-4 weeks for elective surgery.

Your ignorance is astounding. Canada is bombarded with many illegal aliens every day as well. The ones with money enough don't bother stopping in the US, they come to Canada where the prospects are better. You only get more because it's cheaper and easier to get there.

Get your head out of your ass; you are so screamingly ignorant on so many things it's laughable

Facts for the left leaning ignorant amongst us. THAT means you darkforce:

Fact #1

A July 2004 study by the Vancouver-based Fraser Institute, Paying, More, Getting Less, concluded that after years of government control, the Canadian medical system is badly injured and bleeding citizens' hard-earned tax dollars. The institute compared health care systems in the industrialized countries in the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD) and found Canada currently spends the most, yet ranks among the lowest on such indicators as access to physicians, quality of medical equipment, and key health outcomes.

One of the major reasons for this discrepancy is th...

read more»

Facts for the left leaning ignorant amongst us. THAT means you darkforce:

Fact #1

A July 2004 study by the Vancouver-based Fraser Institute, Paying, More, Getting Less, concluded that after years of government control, the Canadian medical system is badly injured and bleeding citizens' hard-earned tax dollars. The institute compared health care systems in the industrialized countries in the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD) and found Canada currently spends the most, yet ranks among the lowest on such indicators as access to physicians, quality of medical equipment, and key health outcomes.

One of the major reasons for this discrepancy is that, unlike the countries in the study that outperformed Canada--Sweden, Japan, Australia, and France, for example--Canada outlaws most private health care.

Fact #2

In 1999, Dr. Richard F. Davies, a cardiologist at the University of
Ottawa Heart Institute and professor of medicine at the University of
Ottawa, described in remarks for the Canadian Institute for Health
Information how delays affected Ontario heart patients scheduled for
coronary artery bypass graft surgery. In a single year, for this one
operation, the doctor said, "71 Ontario patients died before surgery,
121 were removed from the list permanently because they had become
medically unfit for surgery," and 44 left the province to have the
surgery, many having gone to the United States for the operation.
(According to the Canadian Institute for Health Information, 33
Canadian hospitals performed approximately 22,500 bypass surgeries in
1998-99.)

In other words, 192 people either died or became too sick to have
surgery before they could work their way to the front of the line.

Fact #3

America's health care system already includes too much Canadian-style
bureaucratic delay and inefficiency.

To copy any more of your failed system will only add more problems on to

and from the (right wing nut job) New York Times: http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/26/international/americas/26canada.html

The country's publicly financed health insurance system —
frequently described as the third rail of its political system and a
core value of its national identity — is gradually breaking down.
Private clinics are opening around the country by an estimated one a
week, and private insurance companies are about to find a gold mine.

Dr.
Day, for instance, is planning to open more private hospitals, first in
Toronto and Ottawa, then in Montreal, Calgary and Edmonton. Ontario...

read more»

and from the (right wing nut job) New York Times: http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/26/international/americas/26canada.html

The country's publicly financed health insurance system —
frequently described as the third rail of its political system and a
core value of its national identity — is gradually breaking down.
Private clinics are opening around the country by an estimated one a
week, and private insurance companies are about to find a gold mine.

Dr.
Day, for instance, is planning to open more private hospitals, first in
Toronto and Ottawa, then in Montreal, Calgary and Edmonton. Ontario
provincial officials are already threatening stiff fines. Dr. Day says
he is eager to see them in court.

"We've taken the position
that the law is illegal," Dr. Day, 59, says. "This is a country in
which dogs can get a hip replacement in under a week and in which
humans can wait two to three years."

Canada remains the only industrialized country that outlaws privately
financed purchases of core medical services. Prime Minister Stephen
Harper and other politicians remain reluctant to openly propose
sweeping changes even though costs for the national and provincial
governments are exploding and some cancer patients are waiting months for diagnostic tests and treatment.

While proponents of private clinics say they will shorten waiting lists
and quicken service at public institutions, critics warn that they will
drain the public system of doctors and nurses. Canada has a national
doctor shortage already, with 1.4 million people in the province of
Ontario alone without the services of a family doctor.

okay darkforce now tell us all what is wrong with any of these statements. It sounds to me like Canadians want PRIVATE health care despite the fact they have FREE public Health care.

It also seems obvious the DOCTOR shortage in Can

My "stuff" is straight out of one thing, Reality.

I said weeks, and I mean weeks. You don't live here, so you have no idea what you're talking about. But it's obvious that you only listen to right-wing lies, rather than the truth.

Refacting #1: The Frasier Institute is a right-wing think-tank, and all of its information is coloured to favour Conservatives. In other words; it stretches the facts to favour their masters.

Refacting #2: My father was scheduled for coronary bypass surgery within 9 days of being found to be a candidate for it; and his situation wasn't an emergency. Reality trumps statistics.

Refacting #3: If America did have a public healthcare system like Canada, then the Vet...

My "stuff" is straight out of one thing, Reality.

I said weeks, and I mean weeks. You don't live here, so you have no idea what you're talking about. But it's obvious that you only listen to right-wing lies, rather than the truth.

Refacting #1: The Frasier Institute is a right-wing think-tank, and all of its information is coloured to favour Conservatives. In other words; it stretches the facts to favour their masters.

Refacting #2: My father was scheduled for coronary bypass surgery within 9 days of being found to be a candidate for it; and his situation wasn't an emergency. Reality trumps statistics.

Refacting #3: If America did have a public healthcare system like Canada, then the Vets wouldn't have even 10% of the problems they have now. Canadians are healthier as a whole than Americans, and that is a direct result of the superiority of the Canadian system.

Yes, the system isn't perfect. If you nitpick, you can find problems, just as you can with any health care system. But that doesn't change the fact that even with all it's problems, Canada's Healthcare System is vastly superior to the US's. The US system is the Toilet of Healthcare Systems.

And yes, you can spend money on tobacco if you want; but I have the right to breathe air free of tobacco poisons, so do it in private, away from other people; especially children.

So enjoy the Mutual Admiration Society of Right-wing nutjobs. They are the only people who will ever see merit in your nonsense.

Refacting #1: The Frasier Institute is a right-wing think-tank, and all of its information is coloured to favour Conservatives. In other words; it stretches the facts to favour their masters.

Okay that could be true but what is to say your information is NOT TAINTED LEFT? In fact the articles I cite indicate that getting actual GOVERNMENT figures on the state of the STATE RUN health care program are hard to come by. The fact still remains the GOVERNMENT has tight controls on the system and until recently was not ALLOWING for private sector health care. BUT APPARENTLY your people want it or it would not be a growth INDUSTRY. THAT was my main point. YOU GUYS are going back to wh...

Refacting #1: The Frasier Institute is a right-wing think-tank, and all of its information is coloured to favour Conservatives. In other words; it stretches the facts to favour their masters.

Okay that could be true but what is to say your information is NOT TAINTED LEFT? In fact the articles I cite indicate that getting actual GOVERNMENT figures on the state of the STATE RUN health care program are hard to come by. The fact still remains the GOVERNMENT has tight controls on the system and until recently was not ALLOWING for private sector health care. BUT APPARENTLY your people want it or it would not be a growth INDUSTRY. THAT was my main point. YOU GUYS are going back to what our Government is trying to take away.

Refacting #2: My father was scheduled for coronary bypass surgery
within 9 days of being found to be a candidate for it; and his
situation wasn't an emergency. Reality trumps statistics.

Who decides what medical care should be provided? The state? The doctor? Or the PATIENT? If the doctor and patient agree that there is no rush then I can support that decision. If however the doctor is dictated by the state as to what is considered NEEDED or can be PUT ON HOLD and the PATIENT has not say I am strongly opposed to that HERE OR THERE or anywhere it happens. Which is what you would like to state your position is as well. And yet you want to support just the opposite for us. This is why I opposed you so vigorously. You are two faced and disengenious.

Refacting #3: If America did have a public healthcare system like Canada, then the Vets wouldn't have even 10% of the problems they have now. Canadians are healthier as a whole than Americans, and that is a direct result of the superiority of the Canadian system.

FACTOID the GOVERNMENT DOES RUN THE VETS HEALTH CARE SYSTEM THAT IS WHY IT IS F'd UP!

Canadians being healthier as a whole has nothing to do with superior health care and that fact would be hard to prove I would suppose but ask a sick person what they think of the health care system. I have cited several who are not satisfied with it and one source was a CANADIAN DOCTOR.

Yes, the system isn't perfect. If you...

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Refacting #3: If America did have a public healthcare system like Canada, then the Vets wouldn't have even 10% of the problems they have now. Canadians are healthier as a whole than Americans, and that is a direct result of the superiority of the Canadian system.

FACTOID the GOVERNMENT DOES RUN THE VETS HEALTH CARE SYSTEM THAT IS WHY IT IS F'd UP!

Canadians being healthier as a whole has nothing to do with superior health care and that fact would be hard to prove I would suppose but ask a sick person what they think of the health care system. I have cited several who are not satisfied with it and one source was a CANADIAN DOCTOR.

Yes, the system isn't perfect. If you nitpick, you can find problems,
just as you can with any health care system. But that doesn't change
the fact that even with all it's problems, Canada's Healthcare System
is vastly superior to the US's. The US system is the Toilet of
Healthcare Systems.

And you nitpick ours and say yours is superior. I disagree and no America's health care system is not the TOILET as you say. Government run health care is.

And yes, you can spend money on tobacco if you want; but I have the
right to breathe air free of tobacco poisons, so do it in private, away
from other people; especially children.

OH SO you want to RESTRICT rights of others so you CAN ENFORCE your own rights as you SEE FIT? That is not a FREE SOCIETY that is tyranny or oppression. If you want the air to be SMOKE free then you have to BAN the source of that smoke and not PUNISH the user of A LEGAL ACTIVITY because you do not like that activity. I do not like MUSLEMS praying in our streets but they have THAT RIGHT and I have to ALLOW them that right in a free society. YOU WOULD NOT because you want to DISALLOW any speech that does not agree with yours, you want to disallow any activity you do not agree with, in fact you would like to RID the world of ANYONE you happen to dislike. I on the other hand do no

So enjoy the Mutual Admiration Society of Right-wing nutjobs. They are the only people who will ever see merit in your nonsense.

SO then you do not have a MUTUAL ADMIRATION SOCIETY on the left who AGREE WITH YOU? I would call it the same thing. the only people who would agree with you are LEFT WING NUT JOBS like you. SO you see we are the same just on opposite sides of the fence.

I like it over here better than I do over there. So you stay there and I will stay here and we will get along just fine. Just do not blow your smoke across my fence line, nor say anything I do not agree with because then I have the right to call you names and throw vindictives out against you. I wou...

So enjoy the Mutual Admiration Society of Right-wing nutjobs. They are the only people who will ever see merit in your nonsense.

SO then you do not have a MUTUAL ADMIRATION SOCIETY on the left who AGREE WITH YOU? I would call it the same thing. the only people who would agree with you are LEFT WING NUT JOBS like you. SO you see we are the same just on opposite sides of the fence.

I like it over here better than I do over there. So you stay there and I will stay here and we will get along just fine. Just do not blow your smoke across my fence line, nor say anything I do not agree with because then I have the right to call you names and throw vindictives out against you. I would only be following your example. You hypocrite. Take the log out of your own eye and then come and try to take the specks out of ours.

Reality and truth does not have a political bias, unlike the propaganda you traffic in.

As for who should decide on what treatments are done, in Canada, the doctor and the patient decide. In the US, the accountants decide.

As I have said before, just because something has been run badly, it doesn't mean that it will always be done badly. Canadian/Australian/European healthcare is government run, and it is faster, cheaper, more effective and universal, unlike America. The cost of providing good healthcare for every Canadian is equal to the profits earned by US Insurance agencies for insuring some 50% of Americans, and providing care that his comparable to Canadian care to about 20% of those...

Reality and truth does not have a political bias, unlike the propaganda you traffic in.

As for who should decide on what treatments are done, in Canada, the doctor and the patient decide. In the US, the accountants decide.

As I have said before, just because something has been run badly, it doesn't mean that it will always be done badly. Canadian/Australian/European healthcare is government run, and it is faster, cheaper, more effective and universal, unlike America. The cost of providing good healthcare for every Canadian is equal to the profits earned by US Insurance agencies for insuring some 50% of Americans, and providing care that his comparable to Canadian care to about 20% of those.

Yes, I point out the flaws in the US system, but I also compared the systems as a whole, and in that comparison, the American system is the worst of all first world nations. So yes, that qualifies as "in the toilet".

I haven't even begun to mention left-wing ideals to you; these things are all purely neutral and centrist in nature. But you're so screwed up in the head, that you think reality, truth and centralism is far left. It's sad, really. You are what is wrong with America; clueless, egotistical, loudmouth people that rattle off propaganda and lies as if they were the God-given truth. Shame on you!

You are what is wrong with America; clueless, egotistical, loudmouth people that rattle off propaganda and lies as if they were the God-given truth. Shame on you!

O doubt if you would know truth if it bit you on the end of that big nose of yours. Enough said on that.

As far as individual rights are concerned and things that should not be done in public and ought to be outlawed are the following:

Bikini tops on fat women. shirtless fat men, ANY FAT person should not go out in public uncovered. No smoking, no farting, no lying,if I can smell your perfume or body spray it is too much and should be banned, no underarm hair, no hairy backs or chests I do not wish to see any of th...

You are what is wrong with America; clueless, egotistical, loudmouth people that rattle off propaganda and lies as if they were the God-given truth. Shame on you!

O doubt if you would know truth if it bit you on the end of that big nose of yours. Enough said on that.

As far as individual rights are concerned and things that should not be done in public and ought to be outlawed are the following:

Bikini tops on fat women. shirtless fat men, ANY FAT person should not go out in public uncovered. No smoking, no farting, no lying,if I can smell your perfume or body spray it is too much and should be banned, no underarm hair, no hairy backs or chests I do not wish to see any of those unslightly things, no public displays of affection, no running in the streets where cars drive, no bicycle riding on same streets, no spiked hair dos, no tattoos should be displayed in public, no drinking in public places (alcohol) do it at home, no tanning, no hand holding, no loud music that I can here, no britches below the waste I do not want to see you underware, no thongs, no short short skirts, no open toed shoes, no do rags, no rap music should ever be allowed to be played anywhere. no left wing talk show hosts, no catholics, no muslims, no budists, no islamists, no guns allowed anywhere... hows that for a list of personal rights that can CARRY OVER into my personal space. If I have to see it, hear it, smell it, put up with it, and if IT VIOLATES my sensibilities and personal space it should be OUTLAWED like your smoking law.*

And for your infomation I do not smoke it is just a stupid habit.

Talking to fools I have been known to do on occasion. Intertaining idiots is another bad habit of mine. Listening to leftists wingnuts is unavoidable because they are always crying about something.

*disclaimer: none of the above stated bans are supported by the person posting this comment nor any affiliate thereof. I support all freedom of expression in a lawful manner.

What you have is a little something called "Denial"; as in "Denial that you're wrong" and "Denial that people don't agree with you".

Darkforce I know facts do not matter to you. All you care about is your ideology. You are the one who loves ATTENTION and places value in HOW many people agree with you. I on the other hand am willing to stand alone and even die for what I believe in, because what I believe has been tested by better people then you and it stood their test. Those people too refused to believe the truth. Those same people ridiculed and name called the truth in their day. They were also led around by the popular cries of the time. They also picked a community agitat...

What you have is a little something called "Denial"; as in "Denial that you're wrong" and "Denial that people don't agree with you".

Darkforce I know facts do not matter to you. All you care about is your ideology. You are the one who loves ATTENTION and places value in HOW many people agree with you. I on the other hand am willing to stand alone and even die for what I believe in, because what I believe has been tested by better people then you and it stood their test. Those people too refused to believe the truth. Those same people ridiculed and name called the truth in their day. They were also led around by the popular cries of the time. They also picked a community agitator to lead them and killed off the truth which they preceived to be a lie. They chose for their leader a killer and a rebel rouser much like the obamaites did. Anyway they too were proven wrong and in the end God's paybacks are hell my friend.

Here is your chance to repent of your folly and accept the truth that Jesus lived, and died and rose again and is soon coming back to judge the world. Then we will see who is on the side of truth won't we?

I shall remain stedfast in what I believe and you shall remain stedfast in what you believe. And just because you are surrounded by a huge crowd does not prove a thing whether you are believing rightly or wrongly. Enjoy your crowd now because in the end you SHALL stand ALONE before the throne of God and then you can tell him HOW RIGHT you were and see what He thinks of your arguments.

And I shall leave you with these words from the Great Apostle Paul

I shall leave you with these words from the Great Apostle Paul

Whoever doesn't want to work shouldn't be allowed to eat.”

11 We
hear that some of you are not living disciplined lives. You're not
working, so you go around interfering in other people's lives. 12 We order and encourage such people by the Lord Jesus Christ to pay attention to their own work so they can support themselves. 13 Brothers and sisters, we can't allow ourselves to get tired of doing what is right.

14 It
may be that some people will not listen to what we say in this letter.
Take note of them and don't associate w...

read more»

And I shall leave you with these words from the Great Apostle Paul

I shall leave you with these words from the Great Apostle Paul

Whoever doesn't want to work shouldn't be allowed to eat.”

11 We
hear that some of you are not living disciplined lives. You're not
working, so you go around interfering in other people's lives. 12 We order and encourage such people by the Lord Jesus Christ to pay attention to their own work so they can support themselves. 13 Brothers and sisters, we can't allow ourselves to get tired of doing what is right.

14 It
may be that some people will not listen to what we say in this letter.
Take note of them and don't associate with them so that they will feel
ashamed. 15 Yet, don't treat them like enemies, but instruct them like brothers and sisters.

Farewell

2 Thess 3:10-16 (GW)

Let this be instruction enough for you. And I shall now take my leave. If you should ever see the error of your ways look me up I am not hard to find. I will be praying for you darkforce.

Eagle Out!

Darkforce I know facts do not matter to you. All you care about is your ideology.

You must have a mirrored monitor for your computer, because you just described yourself. You are 100% ideology, 0% facts. I give you facts, and you counter with talking points and propaganda, pretending they're facts.

Here is your chance to repent of your folly and accept the truth that Jesus lived, and died and rose again and is soon coming back to judge the world. Then we will see who is on the side of truth won't we?

Dude, you are so lost! I AM a Christian; a real one who follows the philosophy of Jesus Christ, not the dogma and man-made hatred and intolerance...

Darkforce I know facts do not matter to you. All you care about is your ideology.

You must have a mirrored monitor for your computer, because you just described yourself. You are 100% ideology, 0% facts. I give you facts, and you counter with talking points and propaganda, pretending they're facts.

Here is your chance to repent of your folly and accept the truth that Jesus lived, and died and rose again and is soon coming back to judge the world. Then we will see who is on the side of truth won't we?

Dude, you are so lost! I AM a Christian; a real one who follows the philosophy of Jesus Christ, not the dogma and man-made hatred and intolerances of religions. If you truly are a Christian, then you are a Communist, because that is the basis of Jesus' teachings; caring for your fellow man first and foremost.

Yes, we very much will see who is on the side of the truth then.

As for the reminder of Paul's opinions on things, which were frequently in violation of what Jesus taught, let us just say I am a Christian, not a Paulian.

Take this with you: The New Commandment that Jesus gave us is to treat other people in the manner that you would wish to be treated. Are you doing that? No. You are hating, and judging, and spreading intolerance.

I hate to tell you, but you're doing Satan's work, dude.

a real one who follows the philosophy of Jesus Christ, not the dogma and man-made hatred and intolerances of religions. If you truly are a Christian, then you are a Communist, because that is the basis of Jesus' teachings; caring for your fellow man first and foremost.

Jesus did not teach a philosophy he taught a relationship with himself and God. Following Christ then is not philosophical but relational. Jesus is a living person not a philosophical theory.

Define your term Communist. I already gave my definition from respected sources, (facts for those who live in darkforces world) which you completely ignored and did not offer up any of your own. Therefore using my facts (...

a real one who follows the philosophy of Jesus Christ, not the dogma and man-made hatred and intolerances of religions. If you truly are a Christian, then you are a Communist, because that is the basis of Jesus' teachings; caring for your fellow man first and foremost.

Jesus did not teach a philosophy he taught a relationship with himself and God. Following Christ then is not philosophical but relational. Jesus is a living person not a philosophical theory.

Define your term Communist. I already gave my definition from respected sources, (facts for those who live in darkforces world) which you completely ignored and did not offer up any of your own. Therefore using my facts (definition) previously stated, Jesus could not have been a communist because:

1. He never forced anyone to give him anything.
2. He did not come to earth to establish a government system
3. He did not TAKE from one to give to another, his followers were taught to share voluntarily, not out of force nor compulsion.
4. Jesus did not force anyone to follow him, everyone was free to do as they desired.
5. Jesus did not ask his disciples to SACRIFICE anything to him instead He sacrificed himself for us.

Now then if you can show me a government system that does all of the above then I will join that COMMUNE but until then I think I am sticking to my God given liberties of Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of happiness which includes accumulating wealth.

I do not desire for a HUMAN government to step in and PLAY god and thus force me to BOW down at their altar and bring them sacrifices in order that I can have bestowed on me the title of a free man. I am already free in Christ and therefore if I do give I do so out of the love for my fellow man not out of MANDATED GOVERNMENT FIATS. And when those government fiats infringe upon the rights of the individual then that said government is no longer looking out for the welfare of its citizenry.

No, I'm afraid you're wrong. Jesus Christ taught a life philosophy; a way of living that was different from everyone before him. A connections with God was part of that philosophy, but it was so much more than that. It was an attitude about dealing with your fellow man and the earth around you, a respect for people as well as for life, and a lifestyle of living for others, not for yourself. I have met with Jesus. He lives within me (while you have only seemed to have "met" him, and then went astray)

You still have a very diseased definition of communism. Communism does not force anything; communism is a system whereby people live not for themselves, but rather for everyone around them. When...

No, I'm afraid you're wrong. Jesus Christ taught a life philosophy; a way of living that was different from everyone before him. A connections with God was part of that philosophy, but it was so much more than that. It was an attitude about dealing with your fellow man and the earth around you, a respect for people as well as for life, and a lifestyle of living for others, not for yourself. I have met with Jesus. He lives within me (while you have only seemed to have "met" him, and then went astray)

You still have a very diseased definition of communism. Communism does not force anything; communism is a system whereby people live not for themselves, but rather for everyone around them. Whenever one person hurts, the entire community hurts, and the entire community responds to fix the problem. Look at the root of the word, COMMUNITY. That is what Jesus taught; for us to live as a community of the Children of God; those who accept God, and those that do not.

Communism is not a government system. That is an utter malfunction on your part. It is a social system. Until you learn that, you will always be in error.

Accumulating wealth is antiChristian. Jesus said it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of Heaven.

Getting involved in government is antiChristian. Jesus told us to live in the world, but to be not of the world, and to not accumulate Temporal power, because our power would come in the life that follows. He also told us to pay our taxes, and to respect the Temporal government and its laws.

You, my friend, have a long road ahead of you to reach true Christianity. It is more than just accepting Jesus as your personal savior; it requires that you learn, with the aid of the Holy Spirit, how to live as a Christian, to be an example of Jesus to everyone you meet, because he lives within you, rather than just being an acquaintance.

Keep trying. One day you will make it.

Okay what have you done with darkforce? I am glad to see that you apparently had an encounter with God because now you are actually starting to make some sense. So then the only point of contention we have had this whole time is the topic of this original post. That the Catholics supported a president that supports the killing of babies while the catholic church teaches that it is wrong.

and then you said this:

The Catholic Church's stance on abortion is the opinions of man, based on dogma; which itself is just the opinions of other men. God Himself has not made any indication of His opinion of abortion. I personally believe he's against the wasting of human life, but that includes ...

Okay what have you done with darkforce? I am glad to see that you apparently had an encounter with God because now you are actually starting to make some sense. So then the only point of contention we have had this whole time is the topic of this original post. That the Catholics supported a president that supports the killing of babies while the catholic church teaches that it is wrong.

and then you said this:

The Catholic Church's stance on abortion is the opinions of man, based on dogma; which itself is just the opinions of other men. God Himself has not made any indication of His opinion of abortion. I personally believe he's against the wasting of human life, but that includes the lives and wellbeing of the mothers, as well as the unborn babes.

And now you say this:

but it was so much more than that. It was an attitude about dealing
with your fellow man and the earth around you, a respect for people as
well as for life,

Okay seems like you are on both sides of the issue. I still remain on the same side from which I started. So I am not sure where you are coming from, but if you call yourself a brother in the Lord then you should have recognized that in myself from the get go and yet you did nothing but bash me and throw stones at me and ridicule my beliefs because they did not agree with yours and now you turn around and say HEY BROTHER we are on the same team. I think not darkforce but it was a nice try for even Satan himself disquises himself as an angle of light in order to deceive.

Now if you are saying you are opposed to the legalization of the wholesale slaughter of INNOCENT LIFE in the form of an unborn child then you are on the right track but if you continue to embrace the idea that RELIGION has to change to accomodate selfish infanticide so rampent in this country then I am afraid you can not call yourself a child of God.

Nice try though but I am just not convinced, the body of evidence against you outways your pro

I am on neither side of the Abortion debate, because I think they're both wrong. One side is not respecting life, and the other is not respecting people. Rather, I support a third option that offers a compromise between the two stances, one that respects the woman as much as it respects life. I propose that we honour a woman's right to choice, but the time of that choice is, by default, when the woman decides to have sex. If she takes sensible precautions to prevent pregnancy, and they fail, then Abortion is something that is on the table. After all, it is her body. However, if she acts in a careless or thoughtless manner, and gets pregnant, then Abortion is not an option unless her health i...

I am on neither side of the Abortion debate, because I think they're both wrong. One side is not respecting life, and the other is not respecting people. Rather, I support a third option that offers a compromise between the two stances, one that respects the woman as much as it respects life. I propose that we honour a woman's right to choice, but the time of that choice is, by default, when the woman decides to have sex. If she takes sensible precautions to prevent pregnancy, and they fail, then Abortion is something that is on the table. After all, it is her body. However, if she acts in a careless or thoughtless manner, and gets pregnant, then Abortion is not an option unless her health is at risk. Anything that removes the woman's right to choice at the time of conception qualifies as a situation where Abortion can be an option; such as rape.

Now, I know that there are enough radicals on both sides of the issue that they're not going to accept that compromise, but there is the sensible solution to the issue.

There will never be agreement on the status of unborn children, and to be honest, I tend to lean toward calling them human at the time of conception (because they are not any other kind of creature, except a human), but humanity has proven time and again that human life is meaningless to it.

I believe that Abortion is the wrong issue to devote so much attention to; there are other, more pressing issues that are threatening the lives of actual self-sustaining human beings out there which we should be tackling. We should be fighting to ban Death Penalties, to preventing wars and stopping those already in effect, to controlling how the people who act in the name of our country behave when out of the country, to ensure they don't assault and kill innocent people in the name of the nation. We should be devoting a lot more attention to nations with human rights violations (including the US; death penalties are a violation of human rights).

Funny how the subject of your YouTube post suddenly doesn't seem so "communist" when you give it a label like The Peace Corps[/i].

Conservatives have no sense of empathy. They're too busy thinking about #1 to care about their fellow man, as Jesus mandated. Think of the parable of the Sheep and the Goats; those who speak Christianity, and those that live Christianity. The Religious Right speaks Christianity, but they don't live it.

I am one of a large number of Pre-Constantinian Christians who reject that hypocrisy and choose to live Christianity instead; to recognize that what Jesus would do is to live for other people, not for ourselves. That, in itself precludes the possibility of acc[b]...

Funny how the subject of your YouTube post suddenly doesn't seem so "communist" when you give it a label like [b]The Peace Corps[/i].

Conservatives have no sense of empathy. They're too busy thinking about #1 to care about their fellow man, as Jesus mandated. Think of the parable of the Sheep and the Goats; those who speak Christianity, and those that live Christianity. The Religious Right speaks Christianity, but they don't live it.

I am one of a large number of Pre-Constantinian Christians who reject that hypocrisy and choose to live Christianity instead; to recognize that what Jesus would do is to live for other people, not for ourselves. That, in itself precludes the possibility of accumulating wealth for one's self.

A lot of the Religious Right like to pull out the old chestnut, "God helps those that help themselves." That is not said in the bible anywhere. It was said by Benjamin Franklin, and it is contrary to Christianity. God helps those who ask him for help. God helps those who help others. That is the true Good News, not the presumptuous, derisive, intolerant, stick-up-the-butt "Christianity" the Right tries to sell. Christianity is alive and dynamic; it's not something that you should pull out just for certain issues, but rather something that colours every single thing you do, every day.

That is why Christianity is a lifestyle, not a religion.

Well I know I am going to have to have me head examined for saying this but for the most part I have to agree with much of what you said. We differ on not respecting the life of an unborn child. I shall stick up for the unborn every day of the week. I do not see killing babies as an method of birth control. Give me a break on this RESPECT a woman's right to her body, HEY KEEP your cloths on and your legs crossed and you will not ever have to face the prospects of killing a child for your reckless behavior. Again I exclude forcible sex. I am talking about consensual sex between two mature adults. And not an adult and a child either. I am talking adults.

SO other than that concerning the abor...

Well I know I am going to have to have me head examined for saying this but for the most part I have to agree with much of what you said. We differ on not respecting the life of an unborn child. I shall stick up for the unborn every day of the week. I do not see killing babies as an method of birth control. Give me a break on this RESPECT a woman's right to her body, HEY KEEP your cloths on and your legs crossed and you will not ever have to face the prospects of killing a child for your reckless behavior. Again I exclude forcible sex. I am talking about consensual sex between two mature adults. And not an adult and a child either. I am talking adults.

SO other than that concerning the abortion issue I would tend to agree with much of what you said. It just took you long enough to say it. There was never any doubt were I stood from the get go, you just wanted to hide your belief for God only knows why.

Conservatives have no sense of empathy. They're too busy thinking about #1 to care about their fellow man, as Jesus mandated. Think of the parable of the Sheep and the Goats; those who speak Christianity, and those that live Christianity. The Religious Right speaks Christianity, but they don't live it.

This is just plain wrong. FACT the percentage of charitable giving amongst those who label themselves conservatives far exceeds those who do not call them selfs conservative. The numbers just do not bear out your assessment that conservatives are non-charitable.

I do not know to whom you refer when you say religious right so I can not address this statement but if you are imply...

Conservatives have no sense of empathy. They're too busy thinking about #1 to care about their fellow man, as Jesus mandated. Think of the parable of the Sheep and the Goats; those who speak Christianity, and those that live Christianity. The Religious Right speaks Christianity, but they don't live it.

This is just plain wrong. FACT the percentage of charitable giving amongst those who label themselves conservatives far exceeds those who do not call them selfs conservative. The numbers just do not bear out your assessment that conservatives are non-charitable.

I do not know to whom you refer when you say religious right so I can not address this statement but if you are implying, which I can reasonably deduce from your previous rants, that those who believe in God and hold to a biblical world view are not living their faith, again the facts do you bear witness to that statement. The label religious right is placed upon those who are very steadfast in what they believe. The problem is those who do not support those believes label them as extreme when in reality the only truly moderate person on the planet are conservatives. A true conservative does not take an extreme view of anything but every in moderation, therefore they are a true moderate.

The biggest problem in our culture is the corruption of the language where by meanings of words are twisted into totally false definitions and that which is good is labeled bad so that that which is bad can then be called good. Woe be unto you when men call good evil and evil good.

This is just plain wrong. FACT the percentage of charitable giving amongst those who label themselves conservatives far exceeds those who do not call them selfs conservative. The numbers just do not bear out your assessment that conservatives are non-charitable.]

That is a lie. There is no difference between the amount of charitable work done by people who label themselves conservatives, and those that label themselves liberals. The only difference is that conservatives tend to donate money (the easy path) more, and the liberals tend to donate time and expertise more (i.e. actually caring about the situation)

The Religious Right is always what it has been; the sanctimonious...

This is just plain wrong. FACT the percentage of charitable giving amongst those who label themselves conservatives far exceeds those who do not call them selfs conservative. The numbers just do not bear out your assessment that conservatives are non-charitable.]

That is a lie. There is no difference between the amount of charitable work done by people who label themselves conservatives, and those that label themselves liberals. The only difference is that conservatives tend to donate money (the easy path) more, and the liberals tend to donate time and expertise more (i.e. actually caring about the situation)

The Religious Right is always what it has been; the sanctimonious, self-aggrandizing posers who take the label "Christian" and make it be a dirty word that atheists spit from their mouths as a profanity; the people who are Religious, rather than Christian; the ones who engender most of the hate and intolerance in the world by making audacious declarations that things should be one way, and not another, because God mandated it.

God has a path for each one of us, and that is solely between us and God. Our path is not another person's path, so declaring what is God's will for another person is nothing but an exercise in egotism. Therefore, anyone who declares that someone ending their pregnancy, or living a homosexual lifestyle is an abomination to God is really just saying that they are offended, but are not necessarily saying God's will about the issue, because frankly, it's none of their damned business. That is between the aborter/gay person and God alone.

Another interesting fact is that the people who are the loudest about protesting things in the name of God are usually the ones with the most skeletons in their own closets.

Yup the old darkforce is back. You cite no facts just spout off how GREAT LIBERALS are and how ROTTEN conservatives are and then you say conservatives are the ones who say it has to be one way and not the other and spout off hate speech. OKAY darkforce you win. You are by far the GREATER person here. I will bow down at your altar and praise you for all the magnanimous things you say that you do. Of course you never show anyone that you actually do anything good but I will accept that you MEAN WELL when you say you do good.
And as far as what God says or does not say about homosexuality; TRY this:

You shall not lie with a male as with a woman. It is an abomination. 23 Nor shal...

Yup the old darkforce is back. You cite no facts just spout off how GREAT LIBERALS are and how ROTTEN conservatives are and then you say conservatives are the ones who say it has to be one way and not the other and spout off hate speech. OKAY darkforce you win. You are by far the GREATER person here. I will bow down at your altar and praise you for all the magnanimous things you say that you do. Of course you never show anyone that you actually do anything good but I will accept that you MEAN WELL when you say you do good.
And as far as what God says or does not say about homosexuality; TRY this:

You shall not lie with a male as with a woman. It is an abomination. 23 Nor shall you mate with any animal, to defile yourself with it. Nor shall any woman stand before an animal to mate with it. It is perversion. 24 'Do not defile yourselves with any of these things; for by all these the nations are defiled, which I am casting out before you. 25 For the land is defiled; therefore I visit the punishment of its iniquity upon it, and the land vomits out its inhabitants. Lev 18:22-25 (NKJV)

13 If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them.Lev 20:13 (NKJV)

9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.1 Cor 6:9-10 (NKJV)

But you do not believe the words of the bible because you are an ENLIGHTENED CHRISTIAN the rest of us DO GOODERS who actually read and believe the word of God are hate mongers and right wing fanatics. Okay so be it let it be as you have stated and let your own words justify or condemn you. I shall stand by what I believe and killing babie

Typical religious nut. The Old Testament is irrelevant unless you're talking about prophesy, or else you're a Jewish Historian. The old ways have passed away. The only thing really relevant to a Christian is the Gospels of Christ, and nowhere in the Gospels does it say a single thing about gay people. You're getting your panties in a twist due to the bigotted rules of a people that have been gone for 4000 years. Talk about anal!

Leviticus is the most damnedable of the Old Testament books. Demented freaks have used its outdated rules to justify so much hatred and intolerance in the world. The funny thing is that Leviticus is the one book that differs the most in the Dead Seas Scrolls ...

Typical religious nut. The Old Testament is irrelevant unless you're talking about prophesy, or else you're a Jewish Historian. The old ways have passed away. The only thing really relevant to a Christian is the Gospels of Christ, and nowhere in the Gospels does it say a single thing about gay people. You're getting your panties in a twist due to the bigotted rules of a people that have been gone for 4000 years. Talk about anal!

Leviticus is the most damnedable of the Old Testament books. Demented freaks have used its outdated rules to justify so much hatred and intolerance in the world. The funny thing is that Leviticus is the one book that differs the most in the Dead Seas Scrolls from its current incarnation, proving that transcribers have been playing loose and easy with their "interpretations" of that book. What that means is that secular and religious figures alike have been twisting what Leviticus said to suit their own human goals, and most definitely not the serving God.

I believe the words of the bible. I believe that the Old Testament is an anthology describing the Israelites' slow transition from a base, barbaric and idol-worshipping people, to a nation that was just barely ready for the arrival of the Messiah who would teach them all a brand new way of doing thing. The rest of the bible is good reading, but if it's not part of the Gospels, then it's just the opinions of someone who claimed that God spoke to them, and frankly we have enough people like that these days already (See Dubya Bush and Fred Phelps).

You, like most religious nuts, fail to realize that being a Christian means following the words of Christ, not Abraham. You also fail to realize that God gave us common sense for a reason. Use it.

Forcing a baby to be born to a mother who doesn't want it, and will most likely hate it and/or neglect it is also unethical, amoral and just plain Child Abuse.

You are sick darkforce. raising a child is child abuse but KILLING Him/her isn't ? How sick can a person get. If a woman does not wish to HAVE A CHILD then quit fornicating. Or if you plan on fornicating then take positive steps to avoid child bearing (Which by the way is the reason for having sex and not for recreation) but because we humans are selfish and immoral and irresponsible then at least be take some responsiblity for your actions and get sterilized or take positive steps to avoid pregnancy. I would vote for ...

Forcing a baby to be born to a mother who doesn't want it, and will most likely hate it and/or neglect it is also unethical, amoral and just plain Child Abuse.

You are sick darkforce. raising a child is child abuse but KILLING Him/her isn't ? How sick can a person get. If a woman does not wish to HAVE A CHILD then quit fornicating. Or if you plan on fornicating then take positive steps to avoid child bearing (Which by the way is the reason for having sex and not for recreation) but because we humans are selfish and immoral and irresponsible then at least be take some responsiblity for your actions and get sterilized or take positive steps to avoid pregnancy. I would vote for unfettered abortion if at the same time the woman had to undergo a sterilization proceedure. Why should only the child have to suffer for her irresponsibly behavior. Besides I know it is possible to have recreational sex and NOT have it end in a pregrenancy. IT can be done and you do not have to kill babies. Killing a child should be the VERY LAST resort and it should be a soul tormenting decision to kill that child not treated as non-challant and just a medical proceedure. You are sick and anyone who thinks killing a child is a RIGHT or a CONVENIENCE is also sick.

You just aren't listening, are you? Maybe if I put on a Rush mask and screamed myself apoplectic, you would pay attention. I said that both are immoral and unethical, so there's no real right or wrong. And yes, I do happen to think that giving a kid a tortuous, twisted life is more cruel and more evil than a quick death before birth. However, both are untenable situations, so both must be prevented.

However, I can see where you're coming from. You're a conservative, so torture is okay in your book. Torturing a child with a hateful, resentful parent is just hunky-dory for you.

As for you, you obviously don't have the Holy Spirit in you, and are unable to really glean God's message from the ...

You just aren't listening, are you? Maybe if I put on a Rush mask and screamed myself apoplectic, you would pay attention. I said that both are immoral and unethical, so there's no real right or wrong. And yes, I do happen to think that giving a kid a tortuous, twisted life is more cruel and more evil than a quick death before birth. However, both are untenable situations, so both must be prevented.

However, I can see where you're coming from. You're a conservative, so torture is okay in your book. Torturing a child with a hateful, resentful parent is just hunky-dory for you.

As for you, you obviously don't have the Holy Spirit in you, and are unable to really glean God's message from the bible. You, onyour hateful, intolerant path are truly the one heading for hell, and you're to egotistical and full of yourself to realize it. You are unwilling to learn from Jesus' teachings, but rather adhere to the teachings of the misogynists, racists, and a dozen other brands of bigots who wrote their hatred into the non-Gospel books of the bible. You're not interested in being a Christian, you want to be a Jew; like the people who rejected Jesus' teachings and crucified their Lord and King.

You are like the Pharisees of Jesus' time; full of pomp and circumstance and dogma and delusion, but unable to see the truth that is right there in front of their faces. In fact, they declared that those who followed Jesus' path were going to hell, too, so you're not the first delusional pseudo-Christian who has tried to tell me that I'm going to Hell. I'm confident as to where I will be spending my afterlife, and unlike you, it will not be suffering along with Lucifer and his angels. You, however, have shown that you are easily led down the garden path by Satan's greatest coup; twisting Christianity into the damnedable convention known as Religion.

darkforce I am so UPLIFTED from reading all your posts that I am about ready to hang myself because I am so depressed. If the GOSPEL you preach is one of edification I ain't edified. And just to show you you do not have a clue as to what I believe or listen to Rush Limbaugh is an entertainer he is not someone I take life lessons from.

You are obviously well schooled in the liberal arts because you spout their venom flawlessly. You hate any conservative and yet you call yourself a conservative. You admit that two abominations exist and your solution is to ignore it, worse yet sanction it. Somehow you got the distorted view that life is some horrible ordeal that people must suffer through an...

darkforce I am so UPLIFTED from reading all your posts that I am about ready to hang myself because I am so depressed. If the GOSPEL you preach is one of edification I ain't edified. And just to show you you do not have a clue as to what I believe or listen to Rush Limbaugh is an entertainer he is not someone I take life lessons from.

You are obviously well schooled in the liberal arts because you spout their venom flawlessly. You hate any conservative and yet you call yourself a conservative. You admit that two abominations exist and your solution is to ignore it, worse yet sanction it. Somehow you got the distorted view that life is some horrible ordeal that people must suffer through and your solution is to KILL them before they are born and put them out of their misery. WHO THE HELL made you God and who do you think you are to sentence an unborn child to a death sentence and not even give them a chance at life? How do you know what kind of life that child would live? GIVE them a chance they may surprise you. Many great people have overcome GREAT Obstacles and YEAH BAD PARENTS.

There was a time when promiscuity was frowned upon. Now all kinds of sexual immorality is considered NORMAL and those who do not do such things nor approve of such activity are considered odd. OKAY call me the ODD fellow I can live with that at least I do not DEVALUE Human life nor try to justify my own SELFISH LUST-FILLED perversions by sacrificing children so that I can satisfy my unbridled lust.

YOu however throw your towel in with whores, and sodomites and yet you say I am going to hell. Okay I can live with that too. I have had better people call me worse and I survived. Try harder next time.

Just to prove I am actually listening you said:

I said that both are immoral and unethical, so there's no real right or wrong. And yes, I do happen to think that giving a kid a tortuous, twisted life is more cruel and more evil than a quick death before birth. However, both are untenable situations, so both must be prevented.

both are immoral and unethical.. okay we agree so why are you coming down so hard on me? IS it perhaps because you then say this INTELLECTUALLY BRILLIANT comment.. after saying they are BOTH immoral (wrong) unethical (wrong again) you then say THERE IS NO REAL RIGHT OR WRONG. Okay they can not be IMMORAL nor UNETHICAL if there is no RIGHT OR WRONG. They ...

Just to prove I am actually listening you said:

I said that both are immoral and unethical, so there's no real right or wrong. And yes, I do happen to think that giving a kid a tortuous, twisted life is more cruel and more evil than a quick death before birth. However, both are untenable situations, so both must be prevented.

both are immoral and unethical.. okay we agree so why are you coming down so hard on me? IS it perhaps because you then say this INTELLECTUALLY BRILLIANT comment.. after saying they are BOTH immoral (wrong) unethical (wrong again) you then say THERE IS NO REAL RIGHT OR WRONG. Okay they can not be IMMORAL nor UNETHICAL if there is no RIGHT OR WRONG. They would both have to be moral and ethical if there is no such thing as right and wrong. RIGHT OR WRONG? OH wait you do not know how can you possibly tell me which is right or which is wrong or for that matter if there is even a right answer or a wrong answer and if there really is no right or wrong answer than why the hell are you telling me I am wrong. I can not be wrong because there is no RIGHT OR WRONG you just said so. SO THERE I'm RIght your wrong no wait you are right and I am wrong. No that can not be right because there is no wrong in Darkforces world. You dope.

And he does not stop there but continues his INTELLECTUAL Pursuit of rightness or wrongess who knows with Darkforce anyway he says this:

However, both are untenable situations, so both must be prevented.

untenable not able to be defended. Therefore killing a child or birthing a child to an ungrateful selfish mom are both indefensible and must be prevented. Okay how do you prevent the killing of a child by killing that same child? Or better yet how can you NOT KILL the child and NOT ALLOW him to be born to an ungrateful selfish mom. You can prevent one or the other but not both at the same time. Untenable you say.

I am not, and never will be a conservative. I am a liberal with communist leanings (true communism, not what McCarthy laughably labelled as Communism). I am a Christian, with, per force, makes me a liberal, because Jesus was a liberal.

Who made you God and declared you judge and jury about what other people do? How dare you usurp God's perogative? That purely heretical; proof again that you aren't a Christian. If you don't want any more abortions, then you don't go around condemning the people that do it. God says for us to forgive always; something you have a great deal of trouble with. What you do is support initiatives to educate young women about the contraceptive options available to t...

I am not, and never will be a conservative. I am a liberal with communist leanings (true communism, not what McCarthy laughably labelled as Communism). I am a Christian, with, per force, makes me a liberal, because Jesus was a liberal.

Who made you God and declared you judge and jury about what other people do? How dare you usurp God's perogative? That purely heretical; proof again that you aren't a Christian. If you don't want any more abortions, then you don't go around condemning the people that do it. God says for us to forgive always; something you have a great deal of trouble with. What you do is support initiatives to educate young women about the contraceptive options available to them, and educate young men about always using a condom.

As for "Sexual Immorality", show me where Jesus said that people had to be married to have sex. I dare you. All he ever spoke of was having sex for money. Marriage is a social institution, not a religious one; another dysfunction you Religious Nuts have wrong.

And I have never sentenced an unborn child to death, so you can drop that strawman right away (what is it with your rightwing nutjobs conjuring fictional strawmen to rant against?) I agree that it's horrible; and that is why I do everything I can to ensure that abortions of convenience are abolished. As for other situations, as I said before, that is between God and the mother, and is none of your damned business, so BUTT OUT!! Let he who is without sin cast the first stone (Matthew 8:7), and brother, have you got sins galore!

What you do is support initiatives to educate young women about the contraceptive options available to them, and educate young men about always using a condom.

Nope I got a much better idea. Quit fornicating and marry the woman. If she is good enough to sleep with she is good enough to marry. AND BESIDES that is the INTENT of sexual intercourse to PRODUCE CHILDREN, And I would teach men and women to have more respect for themselves and not sell out to the sleaze hustlers of our day like Darkforce and his ilk. There is nothing wrong with ABSTINENCE and a man who respects a woman enough to want to marry her before having sex is a NOBLE man not a nutjob.

But Darkforce being a NE...

What you do is support initiatives to educate young women about the contraceptive options available to them, and educate young men about always using a condom.

Nope I got a much better idea. Quit fornicating and marry the woman. If she is good enough to sleep with she is good enough to marry. AND BESIDES that is the INTENT of sexual intercourse to PRODUCE CHILDREN, And I would teach men and women to have more respect for themselves and not sell out to the sleaze hustlers of our day like Darkforce and his ilk. There is nothing wrong with ABSTINENCE and a man who respects a woman enough to want to marry her before having sex is a NOBLE man not a nutjob.

But Darkforce being a NEW CHRISTIAN does not reqard biblical foundations as anything to be honored. You enjoy rewriting the bible to suit your perverted view of life.

I have never sentenced an unborn child to death

Yes you have by advocating for a WOMAN"S RIGHT to kill he child. Oh sorry you call it abortion. There would be no need for almost all ABORTIONS if we simply quit fornicating like wild animals. Show some restraint God darkforce.

that is between God and the mother

Ah perhaps you might wish to include the Father and the baby in this equation. Oh no wait that is right you are not for EQUAL rights just protected rights. Rights for a protected few and to hell with the rest. I am going to continue to stand up for all RIGHTS including that of the UNBORN child. Hell we treat dolphins, whales and turtles better than we do our own children. Our society is sick and darkforce is a prime example of why.

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone (Matthew 8:7), and brother, have you got sins galore

and this is coming from a sexual pervert and infidel. Yeah I hear ya right back at ya chum.

I am a Christian, with, per force, makes me a liberal, because Jesus was a liberal.

Just cause you say it does not make it so. PROVE IT! with more than

I got a question for you my commie friend. You say you believe in communism and yet you do not define it. Let me try for you. From each according to his or her ability to each according to his or her need. Does that about cover it my darkforce? Do you believe that everyone should take care of everyone else by giving to whomever has a need by taking from themselves?

If that is what you believe. How long do you suppose a commune will last if everyone did not work but looked to someone else to provide for them? How long do you suppose a family would last if everyone acted like a child and wanted a HAND OUT and never applied themselves to earning a living?

And if you say that a true commune wo...

I got a question for you my commie friend. You say you believe in communism and yet you do not define it. Let me try for you. From each according to his or her ability to each according to his or her need. Does that about cover it my darkforce? Do you believe that everyone should take care of everyone else by giving to whomever has a need by taking from themselves?

If that is what you believe. How long do you suppose a commune will last if everyone did not work but looked to someone else to provide for them? How long do you suppose a family would last if everyone acted like a child and wanted a HAND OUT and never applied themselves to earning a living?

And if you say that a true commune would exist once everyone was meeting the needs of everyone else, who is it going to decide who HAS TO WORK and WHO gets to goof off? Or if you are proposing that everyone has to work then you are not living in a TRUE UTOPIAN society like you want everyone to believe can exists BECAUSE one you start to ORDER who does what it is not longer a TRUE COMMUNE.

Jesus says to each GIVE has he proposes in his heart and not out of compunction. Or being forced. A true Christian Gives willingly and does not have to be TOLD to. Only Over lords wish to control people's actions JESUS never sought to rule over anyone. He taught that we should take CHARGE of our OWN selfs and SUBMIT to God not be forced to do so.

He taught true liberty. He allows for everyone to do as they see fit but in the end they will also reap the rewards or consequences of those choices. So in a way I agree with you darkforce that anyone can choose to live anyway they see fit. BUT they do not have the right to force others to have to accept their chooses.

So go ahead do as you want. I for one am not going to follow you in your folly. Nor do I wish to live in your UTOPIAN commune. It has to suck cause you are in in. Good day!

Communism is taking care of others ahead of yourself.

Wrong again but that has never stopped you before. The correct answer is:

27 The religion which is holy and free from evil in the eyes of our God and Father is this: to take care of children who have no fathers and of widows who are in trouble, and to keep oneself untouched by the world. James 1:27 (BBE)

Therefore it is true CHRISTIANITY that takes care of those who have no one to take care of them. Never does God teach to help those who can help themselves. After all you SAID that is not in the bible and I happen to agree. No one should have to help out someone who refuses to help himself. A COMMUNIST ho...

Communism is taking care of others ahead of yourself.

Wrong again but that has never stopped you before. The correct answer is:

27 The religion which is holy and free from evil in the eyes of our God and Father is this: to take care of children who have no fathers and of widows who are in trouble, and to keep oneself untouched by the world. James 1:27 (BBE)

Therefore it is true CHRISTIANITY that takes care of those who have no one to take care of them. Never does God teach to help those who can help themselves. After all you SAID that is not in the bible and I happen to agree. No one should have to help out someone who refuses to help himself. A COMMUNIST however FORCES OTHERS to care for those the COMMUNE thinks are in need. FROM each according to His or her ability to EACH according to his or her presumed need.

Groupthink is much easier for you.

Funny if I am SPEAKING as a group I do not see ANYONE else on this post supporting me. HOWEVER I can find millions of GROUPS who support you. Talk about group speak. Nope still have not convinced me that your way is the right way. Too much history proves you wrong.

There are thousands of years of history proving that Christians down through the ages have effected their societies for great good. The only reason why Christianity gets a bad name is because of those who HATE GOD therefore they HATE CHRISTIANS. People like you who would much rather cling to your sinful ways then to repent and be saved.

And besides the bible says THERE ARE NONE GOOD no not one. That includes you and me. So you are no good and I am no good but God is good all the time.

Therefore it is true CHRISTIANITY that takes care of those who have no one to take care of them. Never does God teach to help those who can help themselves. After all you SAID that is not in the bible and I happen to agree. No one should have to help out someone who refuses to help himself. A COMMUNIST however FORCES OTHERS to care for those the COMMUNE thinks are in need. FROM each according to His or her ability to EACH according to his or her presumed need.

Can you be any more of a dolt? You just described communism when you described Christianity. You're using the diseased American definition of "Communism" that has nothing to do with real communism (small "c").

As for ...

Therefore it is true CHRISTIANITY that takes care of those who have no one to take care of them. Never does God teach to help those who can help themselves. After all you SAID that is not in the bible and I happen to agree. No one should have to help out someone who refuses to help himself. A COMMUNIST however FORCES OTHERS to care for those the COMMUNE thinks are in need. FROM each according to His or her ability to EACH according to his or her presumed need.

Can you be any more of a dolt? You just described communism when you described Christianity. You're using the diseased American definition of "Communism" that has nothing to do with real communism (small "c").

As for declaring me as having "sinful ways", you really need to read your bible more. "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone". You are guilty of the sins of Hatred and Intolerance. Let go of those before you try to tell me what to do.

Right back at you. IN fact I find more hateful speech, intolerance and judgmentalism coming from the left leaning folks then I do from those of us on the Right.

I don't hate, unlike you.

I don't prejudice against others, unlike you.

I don't judge other people; I'll let everyone else decide for themselves how judgemental you are, but it's pretty obvious what they'll see.

And you have got to be kidding. The Left has more tolerance in its left pinky, than all of the Religious Right put together. They are based on hatred, intolerance, judgementalism, and trying to enforce their morals on other people, in violation of God's declaration that all humans should have a Free Will.

Sorry, but you got 0% on this little quiz. Return to your prayer and meditation. Read your bible, with the guidance of the Holy Spirit to show you past the humanist parts of the bible so you can see what is truly God's word. Leave behind the loathsome hatred of the Old Testament; Jesus told us that the old ways had passed away, and that there was a new Comman

... there was a new commandment, to treat other people in the manner than you would want to be treated. That means taking care of EVERYONE; just taking care of #1 is sinful. The bible also says that it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of the needle than for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of Heaven. That makes hoarding money a sin as well (looking pointedly at the Religious Right with their expensive homes and pointless gewgaws).

You have got a very, very long way to go. You have strayed from the straight and narrow path, into the world of Organized Religion; Satan's greatest coup against the believers of God.

I will be praying for you. Maybe someday, you...

... there was a new commandment, to treat other people in the manner than you would want to be treated. That means taking care of EVERYONE; just taking care of #1 is sinful. The bible also says that it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of the needle than for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of Heaven. That makes hoarding money a sin as well (looking pointedly at the Religious Right with their expensive homes and pointless gewgaws).

You have got a very, very long way to go. You have strayed from the straight and narrow path, into the world of Organized Religion; Satan's greatest coup against the believers of God.

I will be praying for you. Maybe someday, you will truly see the light and live up to standard of love and tolerance that God gave us, and leave behind the hatred and intolerance of Satan. Good luck.

I will be praying for you. Maybe someday, you will truly see the light and live up to standard of love and tolerance that God gave us, and leave behind the hatred and intolerance of Satan. Good luck.

After you.

Again I reiterate you know absolutely nothing about me. And for your information I happen to read the bible daily, by chapters and books not just verse by verse. It may also interest you to know that when I pray I actually get results. So therefore I am almost positive that your shall have an encounter with God before this summer is over. I know you read at least two verses in the bible because you have cited it twice. In fact that is the only two verses you have ever ...

I will be praying for you. Maybe someday, you will truly see the light and live up to standard of love and tolerance that God gave us, and leave behind the hatred and intolerance of Satan. Good luck.

After you.

Again I reiterate you know absolutely nothing about me. And for your information I happen to read the bible daily, by chapters and books not just verse by verse. It may also interest you to know that when I pray I actually get results. So therefore I am almost positive that your shall have an encounter with God before this summer is over. I know you read at least two verses in the bible because you have cited it twice. In fact that is the only two verses you have ever cited.

As far as me being rich, you could not be further from the truth. I may not have material blessings but I am rich toward the things of God. And talking about hate and intolerance. Sounds to me like you would do well to heed your own advice.

I love you enough to tell you that you have been deceived. For some reason you feel that the government should be involved in the affairs of the governed. Growing up socialist has certainly distorted your view of the world.

If America is so bad then do TELL which country should we be looking toward for GUIDANCE and why prey tell is that country not DOING MORE for the poor and suffering in the world?

Or are they too busy taking care of their own?

Besides I never said America was faultless but when someone who does not even live here rises up against the country I love and pray for everyday I do not take that sitting down. If you spend more time minding your own affairs then perhaps your BELOVED CANADA could be the WORLD'S SAVIOR and POLICE FORCE and HELPER AND RESCUER AND FINANCIER AND RELIEF HELPER AND WELL JUST ABOUT ANYTHING ELSE THE REST OF THE WORLD NEEDS US TO DO. And they they turn around like the thankless bunch that they are and crucify us along with JESUS.

SO BE IT!

You post with such anger and hatred; it's laughable that you should deny that your beliefs are based on such. You are a shill of the Religious Machine, basing your faith on humanism under the guise of Christianity. You have read the bible, but it is painfully obvious that you do not understand it. You are like a kindergartener, reading out the words, but lacking any true understanding of what they mean. You have memorized them to call them up like weapons to defend the twisted dogma you serve, but the meaning behind the words is a mystery for you.

Jesus told us to respect the temporal government. He told us to "give unto Caesar that which is Caesar's". Government is going to happen, and as ...

You post with such anger and hatred; it's laughable that you should deny that your beliefs are based on such. You are a shill of the Religious Machine, basing your faith on humanism under the guise of Christianity. You have read the bible, but it is painfully obvious that you do not understand it. You are like a kindergartener, reading out the words, but lacking any true understanding of what they mean. You have memorized them to call them up like weapons to defend the twisted dogma you serve, but the meaning behind the words is a mystery for you.

Jesus told us to respect the temporal government. He told us to "give unto Caesar that which is Caesar's". Government is going to happen, and as Christians, we have no business whatsoever interfering in what government does. This is not our Kingdom. Our Kingdom is yet to come. We have been told to live in the world, but to be not of the world.

That being said, what damage is there in taking steps to do what we can to help people in need, even if that means invoking government help. The government you support does nothing but help people gain riches; an anathema to being a Christian. Thus, it is an utter mystery to me as to why, as a proclaimed "Christian", you should support the materialistically-based conservative movement, rather than the ethically-based liberal movement.

As I said; I will pray for you. You have a long road ahead of you.

you should support the materialistically-based conservative movement, rather than the ethically-based liberal movement.

Darkforce no one can talk to you because your concept of reality is twisted. You interchange words and deny their real meaning all in attempts to prove your right.

This statement you made above is totally false. A TRUE conservative is not about MATERIALISM but they do not condemn anyone who pursues it. A TRUE LIBERAL hates materialism and wants to REDISTRIBUTE the wealth around EXCEPT their own.

JESUS does not FORCE anyone to GIVE anything. He asks that they give willingly and not by force.

Therefore a true conservative is the only MODERATE around because...

you should support the materialistically-based conservative movement, rather than the ethically-based liberal movement.

Darkforce no one can talk to you because your concept of reality is twisted. You interchange words and deny their real meaning all in attempts to prove your right.

This statement you made above is totally false. A TRUE conservative is not about MATERIALISM but they do not condemn anyone who pursues it. A TRUE LIBERAL hates materialism and wants to REDISTRIBUTE the wealth around EXCEPT their own.

JESUS does not FORCE anyone to GIVE anything. He asks that they give willingly and not by force.

Therefore a true conservative is the only MODERATE around because they view all things in moderation. That includes the use of money. Jesus also says to MAKE sure you take care of your own family. A man who does not take care of his own family is worse than an infidel to quote you precious Jesus. And providing a nice life for them is not something to be condemned.

All your talk about the RICH man has nothing to do with riches but FAITH. What Jesus was saying is that a rich man puts his or her trust in RICHES and not in God. Therefore because of his or her lack of FAITH In God it is hard to enter into the kingdom of God because you must enter by faith.

DO not put your trust in riches but there is nothing wrong with riches but the love of it that is condemned.

I am not rich in material things but I am rich towards God and if you knew me you would know that. But because I do not support your ideology some reason I am not a Christian in your eyes.

AGAIN FACTS boy QUOTE some FACTS and stop throwing around dogma. You have yet to dispute anything I have said you simply repeat the same song and dance and then you say I am repeating myself. GOD DARKFORCE stop drinking the kookaide.

And thanks for your prayers. I shall do the same for you.

There are not ethics involved to being a liberal. It does not matter WHAT they do just as long as they have good intentions.

A conservative on the other hand gets blamed for everything and gets judged on everything they say, do, pursue, think, believe and well basically for just living.

And it is LIBERALS like you who do all the judging.

Just read your own comments made toward me.

SO LIBERAL DARKCLOUD. Your way does not work because it if did then AMERICA would not have any more poor because the liberals have been waging the war on poverty for over 60 yrs and guess what THEY ARE STILL HERE and in the SAME NUMBERS if not even more.

And your beloved CANADA same thing. GUESS liberalism doe...

There are not ethics involved to being a liberal. It does not matter WHAT they do just as long as they have good intentions.

A conservative on the other hand gets blamed for everything and gets judged on everything they say, do, pursue, think, believe and well basically for just living.

And it is LIBERALS like you who do all the judging.

Just read your own comments made toward me.

SO LIBERAL DARKCLOUD. Your way does not work because it if did then AMERICA would not have any more poor because the liberals have been waging the war on poverty for over 60 yrs and guess what THEY ARE STILL HERE and in the SAME NUMBERS if not even more.

And your beloved CANADA same thing. GUESS liberalism does not work. MAYBE you should try CONSERVATISM once.